Nene Heroine: Every appearance on stage is special for us (INTERVIEW)

Jarosław Kowal, Interia Muzyka: There are two big topics related to the new album, the first is “primordial Slavic energy”. What do you mean by that?

Tomasz Sadecki: – We treat the album “4” very symbolically. The term “primordial Slavic energy” may sound a bit pompous, but what we really wanted was to go back to the “roots” and old practices of creating albums. Until we had more time, we were still at university and we met in the room to improvise together and then create new songs based on it. Now we have less time, each of us is involved in many projects, so the methods have changed a bit. We often relied on ready-made ideas brought by one of us to the rehearsal, and the meetings themselves became fewer. This time, however, we managed to find time to go to a house in Kashubia, set up things there and just play, and then make a bonfire. The songs were created collectively. For us it was somehow magical and primal. After some time, we recorded them in the studio, in a slightly different way than usual. We wanted to reflect the “concert” energy that our listeners are used to in the recording.

Additionally, when we talked with Patryk Hardziej about ideas for the cover and a broader artistic concept for this album, he suggested the topic of masks and a reference to Slavic mythology, which, among other things, was to emphasize our origins. We do not treat the subject of Slavic mythology very literally. This is a starting point for us to build a broader concept and another inspiration.

Do the masks you use actually refer to the beliefs of the Slavs?

– Masks, or rather geometric figures in which our faces are glued, symbolize the four elements, which are a very important element of Slavic beliefs. The square, circle, rhombus and triangle represent earth, water, air and fire. It can be said that each of us incarnates or represents one of the elements.

I was intrigued by the Slavic element, because although jazz – although it is essentially folk music of the African-American community – has close relationships with music from all over the world, there was little Slavic element in it until now. Wojtek Mazolewski referred to it in his British band Tryp Tych Tryo, but this is a rare case.

– I understand it in such a way that these Slavic melodies are still somewhere in us. When we start playing and we don’t think about what direction it will go, the roots start to come out of us involuntarily. This “folkness” comes through at various moments that we do not predetermine or plan. I associate Nene Heroine with a distinct melodiousness, because we have a lot of melodies. They are a very important element of the band’s sound and I consider them our hallmark.

I suspect that if someone writes that you play jazz, you will agree, but if they write that it is not jazz at all, you will not mind either.

– Some fierce jazz musicians like to point out that something is not jazz, and there are probably people for whom Nene Heroine does not fit the definition of this music. I have no problem with that. If someone, on the other hand, perceives what we do as jazz because that’s how they interpret the instruments, the lack of vocals and so on, that’s okay with me too. Our music definitely comes from jazz, so I wouldn’t be offended if we were described in that way. However, it is very far from the mainstream meaning of this term.

Have you ever had a direct confrontation with someone with a very conservative view of jazz who tried to explain to you how it should be done?

– (laughter) It didn’t happen to me, but I heard such a story from a friend from another band. Someone called him and said that what he was doing was not jazz at all and should not be called that. Surprisingly, such people still exist (laughter). My view is completely different. You could probably say more about it yourself, because you often write about music and your task is to put into words what you hear. Fortunately, we don’t have to think about it. We can just play and leave the rest to others.

You’ve already mentioned the second big theme on the “4” album – celebrating the unity of the four elements represented by geometric figures. This element seems to serve more of a visual purpose.

– This can be interpreted in two ways. Of course, this is all part of the visual concept of our album, but it also refers to the music itself. The four elements are the basis of the existence of the world. They fight each other, but one cannot exist without the other. They are interconnected and interdependent, and their differences make them unique.

The visual sphere has been combined with the musical sphere since the founding of Nene Heroine. We have been cooperating with Patryk Hardziej from the very beginning. Sometimes we even call him the fifth member of the team. His ideas sometimes even set our direction, they can influence music and inspire something new. With the new album, we decided to go a step further and expand our cooperation. It’s not just about working on the cover, we wanted Patryk to have a broader vision for all our activities. This is how the idea of ​​using masks was born, although we had already thought about something similar. We have always wanted everything to be at a high level visually. We also attach great importance to physical editions of our albums. Projects often go beyond accepted standards, and Patryk pushes this boundary further and further.

While many beautiful music covers and graphics are created in Poland, I have the impression that our concert setting is quite boring. Often, everything comes down to the play of light and, possibly, projection from a projector; no larger, coherent concepts are created, and when they do, they tend to border on kitsch. You have an idea, and when you enter your concert, the rest of the world seems to be left behind the door.

– This is our assumption. From the very beginning of Nene Heroine’s existence, we were tempted to enter into “alter egos”, which is expressed, for example, by the nicknames we use on our records. To emphasize this on stage, we played our first concerts with lights glued to us. Thanks to this, with the right amount of smoke, it was impossible to see our faces. Only the outlines of the figures were visible. A low-budget solution, but the idea was what counted. We don’t perform that way anymore and I miss it a bit.

Masks are another element and a way of disconnecting from our personalities. The play of light is also very important. This is another stimulus that influences us during concerts. I think that your observation about the setting of concerts of Polish artists is generally related to a low budget. Unfortunately, appropriate stage design, lights, visualizations and professional service are very expensive and only a few bands can afford them.

Is this whole image, context and history as if from another time and place a form of escapism? An attempt to cut yourself off from the ever-increasing problems of today’s world, for example in the form of improvisation?

– If our work can help someone cope with problems or is able to provide some relief or escape from negative situations, it is encouraging. I also hope that this is a positive type of escapism and only applies to situations over which we have no real influence. Art has always played this role, which is why we use it so often. I really like the idea that our concerts or simply our music can act as a gateway to an alternative reality.

Elements of improvisation in our music are a kind of bridge between the planned image and the theatrical sphere. They are a human factor that can change depending on the situation. Thanks to this, in this alternative reality we still have an influence on what is happening. We play arranged music, but we leave room for something surprising to happen. However, even what we have prepared in advance is never played one hundred percent the same. There are certain melodies and themes, but something may happen that forces us to play differently. Even if someone makes a mistake, we all get into it together. We start to create something new around. Often, such situations resulted in a new arrangement, which we later tried to recreate and play in that way.

Every time we go on stage is special to us. During Nene Heroine concerts, it happened to me that even though I was performing, I had the impression that I was among the audience. Even though I play on stage, I can completely drown in this music. This doesn’t happen often.

These are the moments when you enter the so-called “zone”, i.e. you clear your mind and surrender to the moment? Or maybe consciousness always maintains at least some control over what is happening?

– Yes, these moments are the most beautiful. For me, the feeling of feeling like I’m in the audience even though I’m performing on stage means that I’m completely relieved of the stress associated with the concert. Then I don’t feel like anyone is watching, listening or judging me. On the other hand, some degree of control must always be maintained. I have to remember what to play. However, when I think about it too much, something can most often spill out. You have to find the right balance.

Each of you plays or has played in several bands, stylistically very diverse. Do these experiences make Nene Heroine’s work easier, or on the contrary – do you have so many different ideas that it takes a while to speak with one voice?

– I have never noticed anyone in Nene importing the atmosphere of playing from another band. Even when we meet after long breaks just to play old material, we always feel good together from the first few sounds. We all immediately fall into this music and can return to our sound at any time without unnecessary talking. It just comes out of us. There were situations when we had problems with the equipment, for example Piotrek’s microphone broke and he had to play “dry”, without effects and reverbs, but it always sounds like Nene Heroine.

Maybe this is also why this new material actually sounds like an album, and not like a collection of loosely related or completely unrelated songs. It has its own internal narrative and is best listened to cover to cover, but do you play it one-to-one during concerts, or do you change the order and add older songs?

– The order of the songs on the album was very important to us. It’s always nice to hear that the result is best listened to in its entirety. This is our story and in order we build a certain narrative and drama. However, a vinyl record has its limitations and our songs are quite diverse in length, so arranging them appropriately is not easy. We want the whole thing to fit on one disc, and sides A and B have a relatively similar duration. Sometimes it’s a challenge. This time we managed to reconcile it all. Concerts, in turn, have their own rules. We build the drama in a slightly different way, so the order is slightly different. We also smuggle in a few songs from previous albums, stylistically matching “4” and referring to this atmosphere, and additionally rarely played before.

You released “4” on Mystic, you also went on the Monsters of Jazz tour with Pink Freud – for instrumental music related to jazz, this is quite an achievement in Poland. This success probably also comes from the greater interest in jazz in general.

– That’s my impression. Jazz music is increasingly entering mainstream festivals, it can be found at Open’er, Męskie Granie, and Inside Seaside, which are associated rather with popular music. This is a good sign and an opportunity for us. I was especially happy to play Monsters of Jazz, because I have been listening to Pink Freud for a long time and I always had the impression that it had a similar vibe to Nene. The music and energy are different, but I think we have something in common, so when the idea of ​​doing this tour came up, we were all ready to go on it.