GoGo Penguin: The most important thing is to have an open mind (INTERVIEW)

Jarosław Kowal, Interia Muzyka: At the beginning of the year, you published the title track from the EP “Call of the Void” and added that it was inspired by “your darker side”. You can feel this darkness in the bass parts, but the drums sound very rock-like and there are rather uplifting sounds coming from the piano. Were you able to remain optimistic and find something good even after looking into the titular “abyss”?

Black’s nickname: We always try to remain optimistic. Even in the bleakest situations. That’s kind of what the album “Everything Is Going to Be OK” was about. It was created during the worst time of my life – when I lost two very close family members. Perversely, however, the music became optimistic as a result, because it was the only way to take a step forward and move in a different direction. “Call of the Void” is definitely darker, but I’m glad you heard something positive from Chris’ piano.

It’s a song about that state when rationality is dormant for a moment and you feel tempted to do something reckless or even dangerous. For example, you suddenly feel like jumping off a bridge. We all have thoughts like these sometimes. However, I am glad that we managed to evoke other impressions as well.

The unique property of instrumental music is that it does not have a precisely defined meaning. The titles may give some clues, but interpretation is open to them. For you, does each GoGo Penguin song have a specific meaning, or do you rather focus on emotions?

NB: In a sense, both. I feel like on the last few albums we’ve been a bit more direct because of the need to address personal life events. Some titles referred to them. However, it is certainly important that people can give their own meanings to what they hear. For us, it’s much more interesting when everyone perceives individual songs in their own way, instead of trying hard to understand our way of thinking.

I was just talking about a similar topic with Chris today and he mentioned one of our early, still popular songs, “Hopopono”. Over the years, we’ve heard from audiences after concerts that someone played it on a date, someone played it at a wedding, and someone else played it at a funeral. It’s the same song, but it has so many different interpretations.

Chris Illingworth: Working on songs always starts with emotions. A more literal meaning may appear somewhere along the way and is usually related to what we were inspired by, what we were thinking and talking about. Focusing on emotions rather than the direct message also has the advantage that we can establish a close bond with a much wider group of listeners. In this way, we overcome language, cultural and territorial barriers. It’s a much more effective way of communicating.

Does it happen that you are working on a piece, you have a certain idea about it in your heads, and then you start talking and it turns out that everyone perceived it differently?

NB: This was the case with “Saturnine”, for example. We worked on it together and then Chris started describing how he felt about the song. I replied that I perceived it completely differently (laughter). But it’s good that this is happening. It is worth confronting different perspectives.

You recently released a new song, “Kai Dao”, which – if I’m not mistaken – means crispy fried egg from Thailand. The meal is rather light, but the music here is clearly lighter than in “Call of the Void”. Will darkness not be the theme of the entire EP?

NB: We only wanted to capture it in this one track, and it also became the title of the EP because of the cover. They both fit together very well. We didn’t want to force ourselves to stick to one mood when we were expressing different emotions. “Kai Dao” is a completely different direction. A short, fun song unlike anything we’ve done before because there’s no acoustic instrument in it. We decided to play only on synthesizers, because why not? For some people this may be strange, they perceive GoGo Penguin in a very specific way, but for us it was a small, small pleasure. Like eating a crispy fried egg (laughter).

You recently mentioned on social media that you were always inspired by electronic music, but when you started developing an idea on a synthesizer or computer, you immediately transferred it to acoustic instruments. Did you decide to do this because in jazz they are stereotypically perceived as more noble?

C.I: This was also a contributing factor to a small extent. After many years of operation, we had an idea of ​​what the audience expects from GoGo Penguin. We had to confront him and answer the question of what we wanted from ourselves. This is what the song “What We Are and What We Are Meant to Be” is about. We created it with everything in mind that has been part of the band’s character since the beginning of its existence.

We have always worked with supportive labels, but even in such comfortable conditions, there were certain expectations. For various reasons. Not necessarily regarding commercial success, but, for example, fitting into the publishing house’s catalog. These seem like little things, but they have an impact on the direction in which we decided to go as musicians.

Recently, however, we have been trying to free ourselves from this and think more about who we are, who we want to be and what we want to convey. We listen to our own voices instead of worrying about what others think. This doesn’t mean we don’t value and listen to other opinions, but ultimately we have to be honest with ourselves first and foremost.

That’s why the recording of “Kai Dao” didn’t seem strange or surprising to us. It’s just one of several songs we were working on at the same time. Some were acoustic, others electro-acoustic and finally we recorded something entirely electronic. I understand that it may be strange to someone from the outside, because we are perceived as a trio consisting of a pianist, bassist and drummer. However, this cannot block our path to development and force us to stay in a loop of repeating ourselves. This would certainly cause frustration and disappointment over time. I think that not only with us, but also with the audience.

Do you have any untested ideas that you want to surprise the audience with?

C.I: I don’t know. At the moment we are mainly thinking about concerts with material from “Necessary Fictions”. Various ideas are emerging, we are thinking about trying new solutions, but nothing has become concrete yet. Decisions to play something unusual are never made with the intention of arousing controversy or sparking any intense discussions. We are simply ourselves and if we start to naturally turn in some new direction, we will surrender to it. We don’t want to shock anyone, we don’t look for new ideas by force, it happens unconsciously. The most important thing is to have an open mind.

NB: Just because we recently released an electronic track doesn’t mean there’s a permanent change in course. We may never record anything like that again. On the spur of the moment, we felt the need to create something like this and decided that there was no point in fighting it. We want to be guided by these motivations. If we feel like recording a 100% acoustic album, we’ll give in to that as well. It doesn’t seem likely to me at the moment, but who knows what the future holds.

Do you ever go back to previously recorded music and wonder if something could be done better?

C.I: It’s about a year since the release of “Necessary Fictions” and we are still very pleased with it. It’s a very honest album. However, there is always that nagging thought that something could be done differently. Not necessarily better. You can simply approach each song in different ways. All artists, regardless of their field, have to face this. At some point you have to let go. Either accept something as it is or give up on it.

Unused ideas can be transformed and based on them, you can later create something new. Many times I have seen great musicians, including my friends, who worked on something for so long that in the end they never showed it to the world. They still had the feeling that they weren’t finished yet. They fought very difficult battles that left them depressed, which ultimately took away their love for what they created. They no longer felt like they were creating art, just constantly making corrections. That’s why you need to keep in mind that the “imperfections” you fight so hard against are as important as those elements that immediately bring satisfaction.

NB: When we were working on our fifth album, “GoGo Penguin”, Nico from Blue Note (Nicolas Pflug, producer and head of the French branch of the Blue Note label – editor’s note) said: “Perfect is the enemy of good.” This is true, because we often blindly chase an ideal that cannot be grasped. You have to know when to let go. A few years later, it may happen that you would like to improve something because you gain experience and have more knowledge, but albums are, after all, records of a certain moment. They show where we came from.

Besides, if you really want to change something in a given piece, improvisation is no stranger to you. You can test new ideas during concerts.

NB: We have a really old song that we still play – it’s called “Break” (it comes from the deluxe version of the album “v2.0” from 2014 – editor’s note) and there is a lot of improvisation in it. Especially during piano and bass solos. It’s similar with the song “Smarra” from “Man Made Object” – we play it differently than on the album, although I wouldn’t call it improvising in the traditional jazz sense.

On the other hand, there are also songs in which we don’t want to change anything. For example “Hopopono”. We reworked it in many ways before it was even recorded. For example, we tried adding a bass solo, but quickly realized it was a bad idea. This is where this structure, this emotional value and this beautiful melody, which we captured in the studio, work best. We could, of course, squeeze in another solo, but it would be more like inflating our ego than trying to add something valuable.

I know people who don’t listen to jazz or improvised music, but they listen to GoGo Penguin and they don’t associate you with this type of music at all. This may probably be due to references to minimalism, a combination of acoustic and electric sounds or a film aura, but why do you think you managed to gain the sympathy of such a diverse audience?

NB: It’s probably because we don’t just play jazz. We reach for very diverse inspirations. Chris is a trained classical pianist, we all love electronica, rock and hip-hop. They permeate what we do. I studied jazz at university and was deeply immersed in it for many years, but today I don’t go back to it that often. Sometimes I’ll post an older Blue Note album or an Oscar Peterson trio, but usually I’m absorbed by completely different music. And if so, I couldn’t force myself to record a jazz album. That would go against the idea of ​​being honest with yourself.

I don’t mind if someone calls what we do jazz anyway. On the contrary, it’s a compliment. However, I don’t think this is an accurate description of what we are currently doing.

C.I: Genres are just tools. We take from each what we think is useful. Sometimes improvisation is useful, sometimes it is unnecessary. The most important thing is to convey emotions, not stick to a specific style. Maybe that’s why we have such a diverse audience. Maybe this way of doing things appeals to people, regardless of what they listen to on a daily basis. This is especially true during concerts, when our music and the audience’s reactions fuel each other.

Thanks to the lack of a genre key, we can also play in various spaces – one day in a philharmonic hall, the next in a rock club. Sometimes people sit focused and look at the stage, other times they stand tightly together or dance. We feel good in each of these situations. It is a great happiness to create in harmony with yourself and to have so many possibilities.